Raoul Djukanovic
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 394
Location: UK
Sun Nov 22,
2009 6:06 pm
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Let’s disentangle Ed Herman and David
Peterson’s “convoluted themes”, as they call [1] Ed
Vulliamy’s arguments, using language best applied to their
own work, which (in their words) “touches nothing in this
field without distorting it, creating and inflating evidence
to [their] liking, swallowing hearsay, and ignoring and
suppressing evidence that does not fit the desired line.”
To that end, let’s stick to facts, not Ed Vulliamy’s
“disgust and despair” at Amnesty
International’s invitation to Noam Chomsky.
Herman and Peterson claim that Vulliamy’s “mendacious
demagoguery … would be hard to surpass,” then go on to
reference an article they wrote for Monthly Review. [2]
Among its numerous other distortions [3], this work claimed
that: “The claim that 8,000 Bosnian Muslim males had been
executed there was based on a Red Cross news alert that its
office in Tuzla had fielded 8,000 missing person requests:
5,000 for ‘individuals who apparently fled the enclave
before it fell,’ plus 3,000 for ‘persons reportedly arrested
by the Bosnian Serb forces.’ … But in a remarkable
propaganda coup, the thousands of escapees and the deaths
from fighting were forgotten and the 8,000 quickly became
victims of execution and genocide.”
Actually, the number comes from a list of missing people,
presumed dead, and of these more than 6,000 [4] have been
DNA-matched to remains retrieved from mass graves.
Ignoring the steadily mounting toll of identified corpses,
Herman and Peterson wrote that: “this initial 8,000 figure
for the missing, now executed, males of Srebrenica has never
been revised from its initial very problematic level. It has
remained firm and unchallengeable, despite the fact that
nothing close to confirming evidence has been forthcoming.”
Needless to say, they supply no evidence themselves as to
the whereabouts of however many of the 8,000 they think
weren’t killed, or to show how they died if they weren’t
executed (a word used in an attempt to suggest that large
numbers died in some other way than by being murdered by
Serbs). They also ignore all the evidence [5] heard by the
ICTY at The Hague, because it plays a “political role”.
Later, they write about “Croatia’s devastating attack and
ethnic cleansing of some 250,000 Serbs from the Krajina,
with over 1,000 civilians killed,” and claim “It is likely
that more civilians were killed in this campaign than
following the fall of Srebrenica”.
In other words, they’re insinuating that however many were
killed at Srebrenica, most of them weren’t civilians. But
they don’t say this outright, because they prefer to goad
people into denouncing them, so they can come back and
“refute” those who charge them with “denial”. Then they have
the temerity to say that “journalists hate to abandon
numbers that have fitted their biases so well.” Their own
bias here is well established. [6]
As for Noam Chomsky, who (to quote Herman and Peterson) “has
never denied or questioned whether there were displaced
persons- and detention- and POW-camps in Bosnia -
Herzegovina during the wars there (1992-1995), never denied
or questioned whether Bosnian Muslims were massacred
following the fall of Srebrenica in July 1995, and so on”,
he continues to claim that a Guardian interview with him was
a “complete fabrication”, because of one false reference to
his use of scare quotes around the word massacre (in fact a
fetish of Diana Johnstone, whose work he endorses), and a
misleading headline based on the interviewer’s
misunderstanding of his view.
It is hardly surprising that she jumped to the conclusion
she did, when Chomsky still [7] says things like: “the
Balkans are a Holy Issue in England, far more sensitive than
Israel in the US,” as if insisting on accuracy were somehow
deluded, when he calls Diana Johnstone’s inaccurate and
misleading work “careful and outstanding”, though “it may be
wrong.” [8]
Before that, he signed a letter saying that its outstanding
essence consists of “dissenting from the mainstream view but
doing so by an appeal to fact and reason, in a great
tradition.” Would that be the tradition of “selective
justice and no-holds-barred propaganda service”, to which
Herman and Peterson refer?
I can find no mention in their writing here of the
disproportionate numbers of Muslims killed or driven from
their homes during the war. Are they some of the “unworthy
victims” of Herman and Chomsky’s Propaganda Model?
The Monthly Review article deigns to mention them, but only
to take issue with “the party line implication that the
Serbs were uniquely killers and not major victims” of the
war in Bosnia, thereby both inventing a position to oppose,
and misrepresenting the known facts about who initiated a
war of pre-emptive aggression. Herman and Peterson are
presumably familiar enough with the modus operandi from the
American emulation of it, which they oppose.
Even if Western propagandists exploit other nations’ crimes,
that’s no grounds for assisting foreign propagandists in
minimizing them, or denying the established facts, or the
evidence for them.
Doing so most certainly amounts to “spitting on the graves
of the dead”, as Vulliamy charges, and may even be “actively
aiding and abetting in war crimes”, to quote a comment once
publicized by Media Lens, when attacking people who tallied
reported deaths in Iraq, because the number wasn’t as large
as the estimates they preferred. [9]
As for Fikret Alic and all the rest, from the verbiage above
an ignorant reader could be excused for wondering whether
anyone was killed or raped in a Serb camp.
Herman, Peterson and their acolytes should start by revising
their own distortions (hint: this is really “what an
independent journalist or historian would call correcting
the record”), and oppose Western policy without making
things up.
--
REFERENCES:
[1]
Deleted
Thread: 'Open Letter To Amnesty International'
[2]
http://monthlyreview.org/2007/10/01/the-dismantling-of-yugoslavia
[3]
For a critique of Herman and Peterson's distortions, see
http://www.fpif.org/articles/why_yugoslavia_still_matters
[4]
https://www.icmp.int/press-releases/dna-results-of-the-international-commission-on-missing-persons-reveal-the-identity-of-6186-srebrenica-victims-dnk-izvjestaji-medunarodne-komisije-za-nestale-osobe-icmp-otkrili-identitete-6186-sreb/
[5]
http://www.icty.org/x/file/Outreach/view_from_hague/jit_srebrenica_en.pdf
[6]
Srebrenica
Massacre debate
[7]
http://www.david-campbell.org/2009/11/14/chomskys-bosnian-shame/
[8]
http://www.chomsky.info/onchomsky/20051031.htm
[9]
http://www.iraqbodycount.org/analysis/reference/pdf/a_defence_of_ibc.pdf |
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Raoul Djukanovic
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 394
Location: UK
Wed Nov 25,
2009 12:56 pm |
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Media Lens has just published an
alert on related issues, archived
here.
There is no facility to comment directly on alerts, except
via the message board, from which I was banned several years
ago. If anyone wants to copy this posting there, please feel
free.
Otherwise, here seems the most logical place for it.
Quote: |
Date:
25 November 2009 11:39:49 GMT
To:
editor@medialens.org
Subject: Re: Dancing On A Mass Grave - Oliver Kamm
Of The Times Smears Media Lens
Dear David and David,
With respect, your conclusion to this alert is
undermined by the substance at the core of it.
You say that:
"Reasoned discussion and disagreement - and
respectful tolerance of disagreement - are what free
speech and democracy are supposed to be all about."
But it's impossible to respectfully tolerate
fabrications, at least if one seeks reasoned
discussion. Disagreements of interpretation are only
possible if facts are established. When people
misrepresent the known facts, that's not much help
to anyone, however highly you admire the authors.
Mud also sticks when you don't clean it off.
Just as Chomsky tried to have it both ways over
Diana Johnstone (he said that her work "may be
wrong" but it's "careful and outstanding", and based
on "an appeal to fact and reason", although it
misrepresents the facts, and does so willfully,
thereby creating his own "smear"), you say Herman
and Peterson are "perfectly entitled" not to "accept
the figure cited by Kamm and others" as if the
numbers killed at Srebrenica were in serious dispute
(give or take the uncertainty as to exactly how many
corpses will be identified - at present the tally is
well over 6,000 and mounting, despite the remains
being "co-mingled" across multiple mass graves,
which are still being unearthed).
As you know, Chomsky disputes nothing in the
established scholarship on the massacre. And there
really is nothing to dispute. Herman and Peterson
aren't "brilliant and courageous"; they're cynical
and manipulative, and "their facts, sources and
arguments" don't exist, except in a parallel world
where reality doesn't. The weight of evidence
against their claims is conclusive, as Chomsky
accepts. The "8,000 figure" is neither a "political
construct", nor "eminently challengable". It is
close to being fully substantiated with dead bodies,
DNA-matched to missing people's names.
Herman and Peterson's wriggling about "executions"
is disreputable. They cannot prove anything about
who was killed how, and they know very well that
their phrasing implies that the people didn't even
die, but they will no doubt when pushed assert that
they're only doubting how many were bound and shot.
The most cursory reading of the known facts ought to
acquaint you with the irrelevance of this point. If
you doubt it, then start with the U.N. report on the
subject.
This means that they're engaged in deliberate
misrepresentation about mass killings. If that's not
in your view morally equivalent to denying the
extent of any other historical crime, including the
Holocaust, then you need your moral compass reset,
regardless of what you think of Oliver Kamm.
Yours sincerely,
[Raoul] |
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Raoul Djukanovic
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 394
Location: UK
Thu Nov 26,
2009 1:16 pm |
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Thanks Rob B for posting the previous
comment to the message board.
Aside from the general deference to Herman (as opposed to
sourced facts), there have been some bizarre comments about
suing people.
For example:
Quote: |
any lawyers out
there?
Posted by jeff
bowers on November 26, 2009, 12:41 pm, in reply to
"More responses to latest alert"
I think it would be great is someone with some
expertise would help the editors proceed with some
concrete legal action (assuming there really is a
legal case for liable -- the moral case is obvious).
I don't know if he Editors would be interested in
pursing this, but the point of medialens is to make
a larger audience aware of how the media serve
corporate interest not truth, and a legal action
would put this message to a broader readership. It
would also be satisfying to see Kamm admit he was
wrong.
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1259239273.html |
And:
Quote: |
In most cases I
would agree
Posted by
emersberger on November 26, 2009, 4:37 am, in reply
to "Indeed"
that he is a waste of time, but in this case his
libel was so flagrant and determined that I think it
is important that the Eds call him on it. I really
hope they sue even though I know (from their
previous experience with the Times legal threats)
that it would suck up time and money - especially
time.
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1259210237.html |
Why not ask Noam Chomsky what he makes of these opinions?
Those expressing them might shudder to learn that they, like
Emma Brockes, are "of course free to publish them, and I
would, of course, support [their] right to do so, on grounds
that [they make] quite clear [they do] not understand."
http://www.chomsky.info/onchomsky/20051031.htm |
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Raoul Djukanovic
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 394
Location: UK
Thu Nov 26,
2009 3:04 pm |
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The editors of Media Lens have
written to The Times saying the following:
Quote: |
Dear
Sally Baker
You write:
"Mr Kamm refers not just to 'the 1995 massacre at
Srebrenica' as you say, but to
'the recent history of the Balkans', and it seems
clear to me that you do indeed
claim there is no 'mass grave', not least in your
March 20 2006 MediaLens
article headed 'Disappearing genocide'." (Email to
Media Lens, November 25,
2009)
Our 2006 media alert described how journalists had
retreated from their 1999
claim that there had been a "genocide" in Kosovo.
Oliver Kamm's comment came in
a discussion at the end of his blog, 'The Funny side
of genocide,' focusing on
the massacre in Srebrenica, Edward Herman's alleged
denial of that massacre, and
our involvement in promoting his alleged denial. No
mention whatever was made in
the blog, or in the discussion that followed, of the
death toll in Kosovo.
Moreover, we cannot recall Kamm ever accusing us of
denying a "mass grave" in
Kosovo - his smears always centre around the
massacre in Srebrenica. And yet you
are asking us to believe that Kamm actually had
Kosovo in mind when he wrote
that we "dance on a mass grave that [we] claim isn't
there because Herman told
[us] so". Kamm was clearly referring to Herman's
supposed influence over us on
Srebrenica - the theme of his article.
In the 2006 article, Herman was not cited once as a
commentator, only as the
editor of a book containing articles by other
authors we cited. Nowhere in that
article, or in any other article, have we written
that there was no "mass grave"
in Kosovo, or the Balkans, and certainly not because
Herman "told [us] so".
But anyway, Kamm is very clear about which "mass
grave" he had in mind. He was
asked by a reader on his blog:
"Dear Oliver, will yot please retract your libelous
statement about Media Lens?"
Posted by: Josef K | 25 Nov 2009 14:25:21
Kamm replied;
"Josef K of Media Lens [sic], don't be silly. If
Media Lens doesn't wish to be
identified with the cause of denying war crimes and
the genocide at Srebrenica,
then there is an obvious course open to Cromwell and
Edwards, its founders,
which is to stop promoting, praising and fawning
over the work of Ed Herman,
which does precisely that."
Posted by: Oliver Kamm | 25 Nov 2009 15:24:30
(http://timesonline.typepad.com/oliver_kamm/2009/11/try-try-try-again.html)
Again, no mention of Kosovo. Josef K did not mention
Srebrenica, but Kamm cited
that as the "mass grave" to which he had referred.
We understand that you can stonewall endlessly, but
do you really think it is
worth the damage you are doing to your own
reputation and the reputation of The
Times? We know that the journalist Jonathan Cook has
written to you. As he says:
"it is incumbent on you and the paper you represent
to show unequivocally both
that
"a) Mr Kamm was referring to Kosovo rather than, as
appears plain from his
words, Srebrenica
"b) Media Lens has denied that mass graves existed
in Kosovo
"Otherwise, readers like myself will be forced to
conclude that the
professionalism the Times claims is a sham."
Sincerely
David Edwards and David Cromwell
The Editors - Media Lens
www.medialens.org
http://members5.boardhost.com/medialens/msg/1259245590.html |
As already noted in this forum, it is untrue that
journalists "retreated from their 1999 claim that there had
been a 'genocide' in Kosovo," since next to none ever
claimed there had been one. The facts are laid out
here.
Instead of joining the editors in clutching at straws,
Jonathan Cook ought to ask them why they continue to deny
that by endorsing the work of Herman and Peterson (and
telling subscribers that these "brilliant and courageous"
apologists for Serbian warmongers are "perfectly entitled"
not to accept the known facts), they are endorsing claims
(for which there's no evidence) that people known to have
been killed and buried in mass graves did not meet this
fate.
One article, quoted above and referenced in their Media
Alert, invites readers to conclude that the civilian death
toll at Srebrenica was an 1/8 of its known size. That this
duplicates the modus operandi of Holocaust denial ought to
be self evident.
The editors of this website dissociate themselves from other
equally unsubstantiated conspiracy theories. So why not this
one?
Why do they persist in misleading other well-intentioned
readers? What happened to facts being sacred? |
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joe emersberger
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 457
Location: Windsor, Onatrio, Canada
Fri Nov 27,
2009 3:10 am |
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Raoul/Daniel:
Hope you stop saying that they were banned from the
Medialens website.
I also wish you would clarify something. Do you accept that
Kamm's statement that the Eds
"“dance on a mass grave that they claim isn't there because
Herman told them so”
was a lie?
Since you jump all over the Eds for not dissociating
themselves from what you say are "distortions" and
"conspiracy theories" I wonder if you woudl dissociate
yourself from Kamm's lies.
I also wonder if you have some kind of principled oppostion
to libel suits.
Should I be able to make anything up about you and not face
any kind of legal consequences? |
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Raoul Djukanovic
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 394
Location: UK
Fri Nov 27,
2009 7:24 am |
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Sorry Joe, but the fact is that my message
board password was revoked. Therefore I was banned. That's
the prerogative of the site's editors, I guess, but it
remains a fact, and not one that suggests much interest in
open discussion.
Your pretence (posted to the message board)
that I'm "saying that [I've] been banned from the Medialens
website", as opposed to the main discussion board, shows
about as much respect for standards of evidence as they seem
to have.
I hold no brief for Oliver Kamm, whose
political outlook I don't share, but the literal untruth of
that statement is irrelevant (and assuming he has no
pictures of the Davids doing a jig at Potocari, it is
literally untrue).
Herman and Peterson are lying about
something far more serious - the historical record. And
Media Lens is promoting their work. There's no defence for
that, and a libel action would be as successful as David
Irving's.
As for the general question about suits, I
was referring to the irony of the situation. Scrolling up to
revisit Trnopolje ought to make that clear. |
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Raoul Djukanovic
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 394
Location: UK
Fri Nov 27,
2009 8:38 am |
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Just for the record, I should
probably also point out that it's literally untrue to write,
as Media Lens does, that journalists have "blood on their
hands". |
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joe emersberger
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 457
Location: Windsor, Onatrio, Canada
Fri Nov 27,
2009 5:00 pm |
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Raoul/Daniel:
I think this exchange makes it pretty clear why you were
banned from the message board, but you should not say (as
you do at the Times site where "Newspeak" was reviewed) that
you were banned from the message board without adding that
you remain free to post at length and debate your views on
the Medlalens site - as you do now.
I have little to say to someone who says that the truth or
falsehood of Kamm's stament about the Eds is irrelevant. It
certainly is relevant to whether or not Kamm is lying. He
clearly did, maliciously, and is being defended by his deep
pocketed employer - which highlights the depths to which
corporate press, not just Kamm, can and regularly do sink.
Don't understand why you feel the "lies" you accuse Chomsy,
Herman and Pertserson of telling are relevant white the lies
told by Kamm are of no consequence.
You snicker at the "irony" that Chomsky (whom on the Times
stite you accused of lying about the Brockes interview) is
opposed to libel suits. Yes, he is opposed to libel suits,
on principled grounds, and I disagree with him on this. I
don't think it really protects free speech to not challenge
the corporate press with legal action when they or their
employees deliberately slander people. Whether it is
tactically wise to sue is another matter.
You say "I should probably also point out that it's
literally untrue to write, as Media Lens does, that
journalists have "blood on their hands"."
The Eds have explained very clearly what they mean by that
as you well know and that makes your comment very silly.
Kamm, on the other hand, has gone out of way to accuse the
Eds of not only denying, but celebrating Serb atrocities in
the Balkans. I'm glad you're not cluttering the message
board with type of "argument".
I've not looked into the recent history of the Balkans but
even without doing so find it impossible to take your wild
allegations against Herman, Peterson and Chomsky seriously.
The cases that I have looked into closely reveal that even
liberal groups like Amnesty and Human Rights Watch have a
pro-western, pro imperial bias. Even these groups, never
mind the ICJ or other bodies, have routinely inflated the
crimes of western enemies and dowmplayed (or ignored
altogether) the crimes of western allies. It would be
extremely foolish to assume that any of these groups, posses
an absolute truth about a historical record - especially
about something as hard to nail down with exactitude (even
through scientific methods) as a death toll.
The cases I have looked onto have shown that Chomsky and
Herman (Peterson I am not as familiar with) have done
careful, accurate and well argued work.
Kamm, on the other hand, when he isn't slandering people, is
openly heaping praise on war criminals like Tony Blair. Not
a tough call to decide whom I consider more credible. By the
way, if you expect to taken seriously, as oppsed to
satisfying some neeed to denigrate the Eds, you should, at
the very least, stop saying that Chomsky "lied" about the
Brockes interview. Incredible that you would say that even
after the Guardian retracted the interview - which, stricly
speaking, was not even an interview (with a Q/A format) but
Broske's "recollection" of one. |
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Raoul Djukanovic
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 394
Location: UK
Fri Nov 27,
2009 11:41 pm
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Joe,
If you're not interested in facts, then there's little to
discuss, I agree.
1) Chomsky lied. He called the interview "a complete
fabrication". It wasn't. There was one erroneous claim, and
a false headline.
2) You say you know little about recent Balkan history. You
should read up on it, instead of deferring to Ed Herman's
misrepresentations of the known facts.
3) Oliver Kamm is irrelevant, because denying facts about
history speaks for itself (and as noted above he is only
doing what Media Lens does - exaggerating for effect). The
promotion of work that denies known facts by the editors of
Media Lens betrays an indifference to accuracy that
undermines their critique of those who propagandise on
behalf of the powers that be. Why they endorse demonstrably
false work is bewildering. Presumably they, like you, can't
be bothered to do the necessary reading.
4) I've consistently referred accurately to my ban from the
message board, the primary discussion forum at Media Lens.
That you wish to banish discussion about factual accuracy
speaks for itself.
5) There's nothing silly about this. It's very serious. |
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joe emersberger
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 457
Location: Windsor, Onatrio, Canada
Sat Nov 28,
2009 12:18 am |
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Okay I'll deal with point 1, where
you claim Chomsky "lied" about the Brockes interview
I assume this is the quote you are referring to taken from a
correspondece cited in your ref #7 above
Chomsky said to his correspondent
"As for the sources you cite, one of them (the Guardian
interview) was known at once to be a complete fabrication,
so ridiculous that the Guardian ombudsman quickly issued an
apology and it was withdrawn from their website (over my
objection — I think the antics of the media should be
exposed). "
Unless you are referring to another quote then it is
appaling that you cite this as evidence of Chomsky lying. To
do so, you must interpret his words in an utterly
proposterous way - that he meant every single thing Brockes
wrote from beginning to end in the article (including the
spelling of his name) was false. It is obvious Chomsky meant
that that interview completely fabricated his views about
what took placae at Srebreniuca - which is what the Guardian
ombudsman addressed.
If this is an example of how recklessly you accuse Chomsky
of lying then others, if not you, will understand why I
consider responding to the rest of what you say as a waste
of time. |
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Raoul Djukanovic
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 394
Location: UK
Sat Nov 28,
2009 12:27 am
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As you like, Joe. It's clearly a
deliberate misrepresentation of the facts.
He also wrote to the Guardian that "Even when the words
attributed to me have some resemblance to accuracy, I take
no responsibility for them, because of the invented contexts
in which they appear."
Which is blatantly misleading in itself.
But I base my comment mainly on a comment he made to me
personally, which he and you will doubtless object to me
quoting, as he declined my request to publish it here in
2005.
So I'll paraphrase. Nothing he said in the the interview has
a remote relation to the truth. Allegedly. Except that none
of his quotes were retracted by The Guardian.
This is in any case irrelevant, and the fact you choose to
confine yourself to commenting on it speaks volumes. You
have no interest in the facts about the Balkans. You're just
playing ideological games, like Herman, Peterson and their
promoters here. |
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Raoul Djukanovic
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 394
Location: UK
Sat Nov 28,
2009 12:42 am |
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One other thing - if Chomsky (despite
his doublespeak) disputes nothing about the historical
record, yet Herman and Peterson do (without evidence, let
alone refutation of the established facts), how does this
compute in your binary worldview (as defined by you above)? |
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Raoul Djukanovic
Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 394
Location: UK
Sat Nov 28,
2009 7:24 am |
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And finally, since there seems little
point pursuing this any further, it's worth noting that this
whole discussion stems from demonstrably false material
being endorsed, repeatedly, by the Media Lens editors,
who've made no apparent effort in the years they've been
circulating it to acquaint themselves with basic facts about
the Balkans.
Were they to distance themselves from falsehoods, there
would (and could) be no "smear" (which is an interesting
choice of word, since it casually sidesteps the issue at
hand - factual accuracy). Just as if Chomsky hadn't been so
intent on goading Emma Brockes she mightn't have
misrepresented him (though this is still questionable, since
he was trying to have it both ways, as far as possible,
while retaining what he saw as just enough wiggle room,
which is one of his odd habits that acolytes seem to
emulate, though they tend to do a more ham-fisted job).
So if anyone's denigrating the Media Lens editors, it's
themselves. Moreover, your choice of the word "denigrate" is
revealing. Does Media Lens "denigrate" journalists? One need
only scroll up to see Herman and Peterson's line.
In conclusion, Andrew Marr's horror seems more insightful
than you presumably imagine.
As if that weren't enough, it's anti-fact. |
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David Edwards
site administrator
Joined: 26 Jan 2004
Posts: 121
Mon Nov 30,
2009 10:21 am |
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subject: Djukanovic ban |
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Djukanovic is the former New York
Times and Reuters journalist Daniel Simpson. We banned him
from our message board several years ago for inciviilty and
hounding, and have banned him now, also, from this forum. It
is not at all, as he likes to claim, an act of censorship.
Anyone who has a browse through these threads and on our
message board will see that people vigorously disagree with
us on any number of subjects. We welcome challenge and
disagreement. But we do ask posters to observe some basic
rules. For example:
"Incivility in any form is forbidden"
and
"Hounding others is forbidden"
http://www.medialens.org/index.php/component/content/article/31-other-articles/727-posting-guidlines.html
Simpson has hounded us relentlessly for years whenever he
gets the chance. His performance on Times Higher Education
was an extreme, recent example:
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/409008.article
He has described us as frauds, claims we're misleading
people, that we're anti-fact, on and on. Reasoned,
respectful criticism - which is what we try to provide - is
one thing; a smear campaign of unrelenting hostility is
something else. We're not obliged to host it here.
DE and DC |
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joe emersberger
Joined: 24 Jan 2004
Posts: 457
Location: Windsor, Onatrio, Canada
Tue Dec 01,
2009 4:37 am
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Davids,
I do not defend Simpson's behaviour on this site and
elsewhere at all. I think that is made perfectly clear in the
exchange I had with him above. However, I think banning him
from the forum is a mistake.
Of course you are not "obliged" to let him post here - and
you are not extacly the New York Times - so you have hardly
impacted his ability to find an audience for his views.
Nevertheless, I think it would be better to let him post
here so that he cannot more easily mislead people into
beliveing that no dissent from your views is tolerated on
this site.
Joe |
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